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I feel for those Guardsmen having been on long deployments already who have to go at it again. They are people with regular jobs and businesses and this will effect them and their families beyond the pains they have had to deal with because of the war in Iraq, and the effects of this storm.

They certainly have shouldered their share and deserve all our support. I'd think some sort of bonus might help out some of the more financially strapped Guardsmen and should be considered by those who are responsible for such things.

We will have to wait and see what the impact of all this will be. I think some are certainly jumping the gun, and might look extra foolish in the end.

He practically turned the gulf into a sea of boiling water by not signing Kyoto.  I mean, we could have gotten a 0.7 degree reduction in worldwide temperature over the next 20 years  for a mere $11 trillion.

Will the nightmare never end?

First, let us note that the National Guard Bureau some time ago committed to the various state governors to keep approximately 50% of Guard strength undeployed for precisely these situations.

This whole sentence only carries any weight if you assume that 50% of the Guard strength would be as good as the full 100% when it came helping cope with this hurricane. And from what it looks to me, they  could use all the help they could get right now.

The arguments aren't just national guardsmen, though, its preparation funds that LA/NO didn't get. Just one more thing to keep in mind.

I'm not really a fan of using disaster for political gain, but its hardly the first time this has happened. Bush ran 9/11 clips in ad commercials, after all, and that was a greater human tragedy than this hurricane, in terms of lives lost. Moreoever, the basic point of this current argument, of course, is common sense.

On a side note,

Let's strangle this one in its cradle.

Can't say I've heard that one before - and its quite the axiom for a pro-life website like this one.

I confess to finding it amusing that your "the left blames everything on Bush" whining should immediately follow your last post, in which you blamed the left for AIDS in Africa.

....reading the whole post.

This whole sentence only carries any weight if you assume that 50% of the Guard strength would be as good as the full 100%....

I refer you to the proportional utilization figures above, which refute your point better than I could.

....its preparation funds that LA/NO didn't get.

Show me, please, that the funds were diverted specifically for the war; and that they would have averted the present disaster.

Can't say I've heard that one before....

You don't read enough Churchill.

I assume you're addressing me; if you, you neither understand whom you're speaking to, nor the previous post on AIDS.

Because they do.  It's not whining, it's a fact.  Tim Saler should know, although he has made some halfhearted efforts to depoliticize it over at DKos today, while also saying that we should forget about Iraq.  They can "go stick it," according to Tim.

I agree with you. I think, provided that this is not allowed to be swept under the rug, could really be the impetus required to enact some real necessary change in terms of our budgeting and our priorities.

The United States comes first. Iraq can go stick it.

Question to the editors:  Why do we keep him around as a registered user?  For laughs?

And it's not just in the United States, although we have plenty of it here as well, from Julie Elperin of the Washington Post.  Remember, we shouldn't "tinker with Mother Nature!"

Oh, absolutely, and one of the reasons New Orleans is vulnerable, ironically, is because of global warming.  What's happened is that the city should be protected on some level from its, from these kinds of storms by its coastline.  But that coastline has been eroding over the years, for a number of reasons, including the fact that officials have made the Mississippi straighter, so that the water goes straight out to sea, instead of depositing silt. They're losing about 25 square miles of coastline a year, so that had made them more vulnerable; that, coupled with the fact that sea level has been rising, makes these storm surges more powerful, and therefore can affect the city more, more greatly.

Oh wait, the Post has switched the video.  You can't watch Julie any longer at that link.  Luckily, I have mirrored the audio of her interview here.  Us silly humans!  According to Ron, we just never realized that rivers don't like to go straight!

Amazingly, I took some heat this morning for "politicizing" this issue.  But that's what the New York Times did when they published their editorial this morning, and that's what people at DKos have been doing all day long.  I really fail to understand how, if the Left decides to make it a political issue, the Right shouldn't respond.  Oh well, I'm sure it matters to people who want to score political points.  As always, that's what it's about.  That's what really matters.

At that link.  Now you can watch Eilperin tell us all about it again.  

The left wants to put the blade in Chimpy McBushitler's back during a national disaster and then walk away with clean hands. How dare you call them on it? That's like pointing out Cindy Sheehan's anti-Semitic tripe!

You've been a bad boy. Now go sit in the corner.

For God's sake, one of the things the Left likes to do is get up on its crucifix and pretend to be victimized, when in fact they're some of the most craven, hypocritical, opportunistic people on earth. Trust me, the minute I heard that NO was going to get it in the neck, I knew that the Democratic Party and their lickspittles in the Running Dog media would find a way to blame Bushitler for something.

When I think of the Democrats I always like to borrow from Abba Eban, whose aphorism about the Palestinians I always like to adapt to todays thoroughly modern, if unprincipled, Democratic Party. "The Democrats never miss an opportunity to be opportunistic."

I really dislike the "feel" of that line, even though I perfectly understand its meaning... Seems too anthropomorphic and ghastly...

but then, as i think more, "strangle it in its cradle," or "wait until it's a teenager then shoot it" makes as much sense than killing it in the nascent phases: at least then you have a better idea of what kind of kid/person it is ...  yes, i crossed the line directly into the realm of anthropoi.

(learning Greek is fun)

Was that random enough? I'll now duck back into the obscurity and occasional sideline observations my new schedule (and a blissful detachment from politics) dictate to me.

Blessings, all.

"Jeepers, Trevino" might convey your sentiment just fine, but then I read the rest of the post and realized that wasn't nearly the most offensive part.

"more sense than" not "as much sense than" in the second paragraph...  I'm not infallible yet.

trevino... I respect your point... at least, I think this is an American disaster, we must work together.

But 50% of a force meant to Guard the US is a far cry from 100%.

We do not know the ramifications of this or other infrastructural decisions.

It is also important to assess decisions and their impact.

As for missing National Guard it doesn't help.

I know we all, left, right, all but the psychotic are stunned and saddened by this devastation and the fate of New Orleans in particular... we all are.  But we will have to solve the problems and figure out how they could have been solved better, whatever the political pain for those involved.

I do fear it will be more bitter than the optimum, however, and wish that that would not be so.

....is here.

I do, now. It took a while, but that's where we are.

These cretins have no idea what a Cat4 does to a major river, bay, harbor, or lake. This ain't splashing in a damned bathtub. The sheer power of these things is beyond what most people imagine.

What should those extra Guardsmen have been used for? To throw sandbags in the way of more water than you can imagine? I presume they think spitwads are the next generation of tank killers. To drown with the M-16s pointed at a storm surge? Well, that would give them their dead Guardsmen they need for a rallying point.

I'm one hundred percent positive, based on some of the commenters here, that it's possible to be a decent human being and a liberal at the same time. It's not true of being a Leftist.

Expletives deleted.

"Show me, please, that the funds were diverted specifically for the war; and that they would have averted the present disaster."

You can't say you didn't ask for this informaton...

No surprise the endlessly obsessive RedDan is on the case.  Not sure he quite knows the specifics of the catastrophe in question, though, or what the "and" in the sentence signifies.  I've actually read most of the sources he cites; there'll be an RS post on this one tomorrow.  

Short version: it wouldn't have prevented this disaster.

I echo your sentiments.

I've surfed Kos pretty regularly for a while now.  Usually, it is just for entertainment value, but the coverage in the build up to Katrina was especially troubling.  As she was still swirling in the Gulf, the moonbats were already going absolutely rabid.

I find this disgusting.  While the death toll of Katrina will probably be far lower than the tragic events of 9-11, her effects will undoubtly change the lives of thousands forever.  To hear the "Bush is to blame" tripe is bad enough, but to hear the absolute filth of "well, that's God's wrath on the red states, blah, blah, blah..." is just sickening.

I have many friends, friends that I would readily die for, in Mississippi and Louisiana.  To hear such vile hatred directed at them is distressing.

Katrina may well go down as one of the worst natural disasters in history.  Her effects will be felt for many years to come.  Now is not the time to cast blame or make such crass statements.  It is the time for us to lock arms with our brothers and UNITE to overcome the challenges this disaster gives us.  As usual, the hatred of the lefties motivates something different.  It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother to bridge the "Big Ditch" after all.

I'm just sick...sick, sick, sick.

As for the corporations that have pledged assistance, good for them, regardless of the motives.  If it puts clean water in a parched mouth or feeds a hungry child, what damn difference does the motivation make?

To all you rabid lefties coming here to needle a fight or spew your filth, get over yourself.  We've got work to do and no time for tripe.      

Cause if he actually meant to reply to me, I'm very very confused :(

All your sarcasm about spitwads aside, the national guard has been used to help fight against quite a few hurricanes before. "What should those extra Guardsmen have been used for?" ... how about the same things they're always used for?

Right now you have extreme looting in New Orleans. The city is under martial law. If you don't think having the national gaurd there would help anything, well then, I don't know what to tell you.

People say that not having the national guard around to help civilians against a natural disaster (heck, that's one of the main reasons the national gaurd exists) and your reaction is "I hate the left"? I suspect you already hated the left, and frankly, speaking from the left, I can't say my feelings are really hurt.

to gain or contribute here.  Go back to dkos and spin your nasty little conspiracy theories and cast your wide nets of blame.

FWIW-There are several National Guard units from Texas that were poised and ready to go to LA even before Katrina hit.  I heard a MSGT from Longview, TX speaking of the efforts on one of the weekend shows on Fox Sunday night.  Most likely they are already there.  

You people disgust me.  This is a DISASTER for God's sake and you can't put aside your partisan sniping for one damn day.  Nope, the Bush haters must get their digs in while the gettin' is good.  I have tried for four years now to wrap my brain around why it is that hate motivates you people so much.  I'm done trying.  I don't care what you think or feel now.  My goal in life is to continue to fight the good fight and keep you and your ilk out of power for the rest of my natural born life.

I say "my feelings aren't hurt" and your reaction is "then leave because you have nothing to contribute"? Say what?

I've heard about the out of state Natl Guard units ready to move in, and fully applaud their efforts. Its going to be quite the cleanup.

Regardless, I feel the debate on this topic has gotten far too political, which is a shame. I think it would be a good thing to examine, without finger pointing for the sake of finger pointing, just because its the right thing to do; learn for next time, etc etc. Instead, both sides are just using childish name calling. I'm not one for conspiracy theories either way. I think it might be time to just let the debate here drop, since its too poisoned an atmosphere to continue, for limited gain.

On a side note, you accuse me of being motivated by hate. I'm hardly motivated by hate. I have a number of posts here on RS, and wouldn't consider any of them hateful. If you're really looking to stamp out hateful politics, which I would call an admirable goal, I'd suggest toning done the hateful rhetoric found in posts like these:

I don't care what you think or feel now.  My goal in life is to continue to fight the good fight and keep you and your ilk out of power for the rest of my natural born life.

At the end of the day, we're all Americans, and all want America to succeed right? Anyway, thats my two cents. Cheers!

then head on over to dkos and other lefty blogs  and tell them to grow up and get over themselves.  

They have placed the blame of this natural disaster squarely on the shoulders of the Bush administration.  They have spouted nonsense that these states and Florida deserve the natural disasters because they are "red" states.  They have spouted nonsense that corporate America only helps because of good PR.

The list goes on and on and on.  You want to heal the divide?  Get your butt back over on your own side and get your inmates back in the asylum.

My guess is you won't do it though because it's just more fun for you to come here and attempt to take the moral high ground.  So, it will be left to those of us on the other side to call you guys on your bullsh** for as long as you spew it.  

your comment thread.

Nah, you're not hateful.  You just like to point sticks and argue form the latest, hot of the press, friendly democrat talking points.

You add nothing constructive to the debate, you just want to goad and pick fights.

This is off topic for this thread, but I just wanted to commend you for the "fallen generation" piece in REDHOT.

Thank you for calling out the hypocrisy that seems to be rampant among lefties these days.

As you appear to be addressing what good the National Guard would be after a hurricane, rather than before, you've unsurprisingly missed the thrust of all of this.

I can't say I give a damn one way or another about your feelings. I haven't heard from some of my family in the area since all this happened. That the Left wants to make political hay out of this has left me utterly indifferent to its collective existence, except as an opponent to be crushed.

Have fun with your self-abuse.

The National Guard's mission has not been to "guard the US" and hasn't been since probably the Civil War.

The National Guard is designed to be called up under federal command in case of conflict. Since the early 1970s, the National Guard has been specifically structured to provide combat troops. For most of the  Cold War a National Guard brigade was the third, or "roundout" brigade, in most active duty divisions.

So let's not spread this untruth.

If the 8,000 available Guardsmen aren't there right now, what difference would the 3,000 in Iraq make?

Of course, I know the answer. You'd have to find something else to blame on the Administration.

"Regardless, I feel the debate on this topic has gotten far too political, which is a shame."

Really? NOW it's far too political? Because people are realizing how pathetic and morally bankrupt the left is?

Soon you will run out of bodies to stand on to spew your hate. What will you do then?

The modern American left is shot through with men who cut themselves shaving and blame Bush's war in Iraq for the blood thus spilt. There's no point in trying to convince them otherwise, or that Katrina's devastation is not somehow, somehow the Administration's fault. But you, dear reader, can and should know better.

Hear hear.  They won't listen.  They've retreated into LaLa Land.  Besides, would you want the moonbats at your side in a crisis anyway? How much can you count on any "adult" whose actions and lifeview are shaped by the rantings of the lunatic Randi Rhodes and the Manchild Markos Zuniga.  

This doesn't mean we should just ignore these people.  When they speak up, we should speak back.  We can't let their childishness dominate public debate.  Remember what Senator Alan Simpson said:  An allegation unrefuted is an allegation believed.

But, our goal should be to break apart and beat down their arguments.  We can't convince them, or change their minds.  They have chosen to be fools.  So, we shouldn't waste our time with them.

I ask a lot of questions because I want them answered, not to pick fights. I'm hear to learn, not debate. It's my perception tha tthe kind of posters on redstate aren't going to be convinced to vote blue by anything I say, but I am interested in how they think.

Otherwise I just like to read. The FairTax diaries, for example, I find especially interesting.

I know a lot of lefties are out here to attack and accuse, but that's not really my bag.

:)

I generally haven't attacked the right at all, in any sweeping generalizations using words like "morally bankrupt" and "pathetic"

I ask you, which one of us is posting with hate?

It isn't me ;)

And far from being in la-la land, I'm here, reading this.  Unless this is la-la land.  That possibility never entered my mind.

I'm trying to form an honest opinion based on serious reportage.  I've read some arguments today that FEMA and ACOE have been underfunded.  I've read that planned and approved levee maintenance projects have gone uncompleted because federal funding has been withheld.  I read that guardsmen who might have been in LA today are instead in IRAQ.  It seems reasonable to believe that there is no lack of tasks for an orderly, disciplined, trained and properly equipped militia.  From search and rescue to logistics and transportation to communications to guarding and protecting infrastructure.  

Are there counter arguments?  Have FEMA and ACOE been adequately funded?  Would a full contingent of militia be superfluous?

In order to hate someone, you have to care about them somewhat. I don't, so I don't.

"Morally bankrupt" and "pathetic" were just the nicest things that came to mind at the time, especially in light of the subject of the original post.

Again, I am interested in what will happen when the left runs out of bodies to stand on.

all I know is the National Guard is used in EVERY large scale disaster like this.

but let''s not argue that... my bigger point would be that we need a domestic defense force for this sort of thing.

otoh... a terrible hurricane is the primary culprit, but we have to be prepared.

I hope in the future we will remember this... and remember our preparation is why we are not used to thousands dead from natural disasters.